Damage Calculation & Ranking Spreadsheet

Discussion in 'Units & Items' started by derposed, Aug 7, 2016.

  1. derposed

    derposed Well-Known Member

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    -> google spreadsheet link <-

    So a while back I was wondering about how tap skills and companions affected damage rankings. Are peta-weapon companions better than Celestial Envoy? Are Zuzu and Czekras's job 2 always higher damage than job 3? Is Shin'en Λ really as garbage as he looks at first glance?

    I started a spreadsheet to help figure things out. The end result is a fairly comprehensive overview of the damage landscape. Rankings are provided with the following options:

    Attack Type: the expected 3 weapons and 6 elements, plus generic physical, generic magic, and everyone combined.
    Required Skills: elemental shield, elemental shield & capsules, or none
    Pincer Type: repeated single, repeated double, and the ultimate 6 tap double
    Level: 25 (Eidolon I & PvP B), 35 (Eidolon single), 45 (Eidolon II), 65 (Eidolon III & PvP A), 90
    Companion: none, farmable only, or optimal
    Enemy Stats: physical and magic defense values and vulnerability multipliers

    There's also a worksheet page where you can directly compare companion and skill choices for a single character, with a little bit of copy/paste action.

    Let me know what you think!
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
    Onark, Sean Bond, Tujion and 5 others like this.
  2. Ael

    Ael Active Member

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    Completely depends if you consideres one single pince, or a double pince (most of bosses)
     
  3. derposed

    derposed Well-Known Member

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    It's not just that, the peta weapons have +30 ATK while the CE has +10, which can actually be a big deal. For example, good old S'naip with the standard gigabow, spin, physx1.5, atk+10% loadout gives this from my worksheet:

    S'naip Companions.png

    So here the peta weapon companion edges out every other choice in every pincer type. Now if you consider Odin with his usual giga, mega, mega column, atk+10% loadout, you have

    Odin Companions.png

    So with him the peta is best for single pincers, skullsplitter for double, and CE for 6 tap double pincers.

    Mathematics!
     
  4. Arkan

    Arkan Member

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    It's really a wonderfull work you've done here.
    That's what I originally wanted to do myself, but due to my lack of organisation my spreadsheet is a mess, so not shareable at all... :sorry:

    One question, you didn't calculated the pincer damage, right ? Because it seemed not relevant to you or just subject to too many randomly data (number of chainable characters, ATK stat capped by the pincer, etc..) ?

    (Sorry if my english seems... weird, I do my best :bigtears:)
     
  5. derposed

    derposed Well-Known Member

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    Correct, pincer damage not included because there are too many variables involved. I might include something for pincer damage in the future, but for now I felt I already had enough to consider.
     
  6. doodootron

    doodootron Member

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    Thanks for this. It's very comprehensive. I never would have guessed Macuri would be better with Skullsplitter on steady double pincers than CE or Peta.
     
  7. BambY

    BambY Active Member

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    The fact that it is macuri does not have to be concidered :
    The +50% damage bonus is applied after ... (just to explain my thought : if A > B then 1.5*A > 1.5*B)
    With the same reasoning, you dont really care of the ATK of the adventurer, it wont change the result. ....
    And, you dont really care about the DEF of the monster, it wont change the comparaison either :)

    The only comparaison you need to do is the number of skill VS the number of buff.
     
  8. Anubarak

    Anubarak Active Member

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    the fact, that it is macuri matter a lot.
    The reason why skullsplitter is so strong is the combination of all his values because it matters a lot how much power and how much attack you have.
    When a character has many Tera and Giga attacks, than CE wont be as strong as it is when the character only has 3 or 4.
    You don't just multiply the different factors, you potentiate your attack with 1.7.

    To keep it on a really really simple level you just have to look what you need to double your damage. You nearly have to double your power (tera, giga, megaattacks) but you dont have to double your attack in order to double your damage. When you give Macuri with all his attacks a CE you only have +30 attack and power 4, but when you want to deal as much damage as possible without you want to use skullsplitter to gain +60% attack with skullsplitter and his own stackable buff to increase your damage further.

    with CE you increase his power by 4 so you nearly add +50% damage. Just a really simple calculation: calculate 300^1,7 = 16259 when you increase attack by 60% you have 480 ^ 1,7 = 36150. You pretty much doubled your damage instead of increasing it a little bit

    Note: keep in mind these are no exact calculations it should just represent the way it works... the exact values are in the table
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2016
  9. BambY

    BambY Active Member

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    We are on the same page :)
    for me the particuliarity of Ma'curi is its +50% physical damage buff .... and this buff has no impact on the computation, you can just ignore it, you will have the same results when comparing otomos.
    But I was too fast with the ATK, as there is also a flat buff, that can not be ignored .... (but DEF can be ignored also)
     
  10. Anubarak

    Anubarak Active Member

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    Then sry for my misunderstanding I though you wanted to say it's the same for every unit regardless of their combination between power and attack^^"
    My English is not that good :disappointed:
    The only thing I wanted to clarify is the difference between "attack + 30 equip from peta" and "attack + 10%!, chain) from skullsplitter, that matters a lot.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2016
  11. derposed

    derposed Well-Known Member

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    Updated spreadsheet with the new characters and a few other improvements:
    * New companion choices, you can choose "optimal", "farmable only", or "none". "farmable only" excludes the peta-weapon and tera-magic companions from CoT.
    * Refactored the calculation backend so the rankings should update much faster after a selection is changed.
    * Ditched the ugly graph and added a bunch of sparklines. It works.
     
    vicenturi and doodootron like this.
  12. supergaijin

    supergaijin Well-Known Member

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    I tried looking at it online and downloading it, I didn't see how companion choices changed anything in the spreadsheet, but at the same time, some data seemed corrupted when it downloaded. just to be sure, for now, have you made bow of genji farmable since it was available at least once (in its apollo S rank form) in a kino dungeon?
     
  13. derposed

    derposed Well-Known Member

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    It will be totally broken if you download it as an excel sheet or w/e. It makes heavy use of google's query language to set up all the character combinations. You have to make a copy google sheet to edit it, you might have to be signed into a google account to do that.

    I have not marked the tera/peta bow companion as farmable yet.
     
  14. derposed

    derposed Well-Known Member

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    Updated for 4.3.0
     
  15. thorowitzm

    thorowitzm New Member

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    Excellent work!
    Just got my Mutoh^ yesterday.. still have to grind his SB and luck but in order to make the grind easier, I decided to farm more holy dragon otomos.
    Super excited to see how much DPS he does after he's maxed out!
     
  16. yeezus

    yeezus Active Member

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    Mutoh is a very buxom she :hilarious:
     
  17. Person Man

    Person Man Well-Known Member

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    Medals:
    Do beings from a high realm having fun in a lower realm that took over the bodies of others count as having true genders? I can't imagine Mutoh does the nooky.
     
  18. yeezus

    yeezus Active Member

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    Her lore refers to her as a she. That combined with her artwork makes her a she, at least in the lower realm.
     
  19. Phage

    Phage New Member

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    To clarify, the damage calculations are basically just assuming they have the buffs from steady double pincers and are effectively leading a single pincer for damage?

    For example against a 2x2 boss with steady double pincer, is Bahl doing 23k once (no aoe), but a Z mage would do 11k twice?
     
  20. thorowitzm

    thorowitzm New Member

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    Oh I actually didnt notice those prominent boob(^_^)s.. So Mutoh^ was a female!
    Now that I see it, Shinen^ is probably a male then?
    He doesnt seem to have any .. and I also noticed theres a little guy hanging out of Shinens pants.. or dress... or whatever.
     

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