[GUIDE] Distilled Shin'en details!

Discussion in 'Levels & Bosses' started by Todd, Jul 7, 2016.

  1. Todd

    Todd Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,017
    Likes Received:
    409
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2014
    Updating original post to explain what I know about the encounter and lost the different methods of beating Shin'en^

    THIS IS FOR HARD MODE ONLY. If you have not defeated chapter 35 then hard mode is always on. If you have finished chapter 35 then hard mode occurrs for 1 hour, two times per day, depending on your time zone, and is indicated by sparkles on the map zone where you enter the encounter.

    THIS GUIDE IS MAINLY BASED OB MY OWN KNOWLEDGE. Some statements may be proven wrong by others. Take my advice at your own risk!

    Why do I want Shin'en?
    He's a powerful ^ character with very good stats and versatile skills including gravity magic, strong spear attacks, and he also destroys time traps and has the Impair tap ability. He's also farmable to 100 luck. You'll also get a ton of coins from farming him, 15002 coins per clear, plus an otomo reward like MM^ (worth 3k coin) or glassy minion (10k coin) or gold minion (40k coin). D chest can also drop 100,000 coin.
    He's also worth 800k experience which you may or may not be able to take advantage of depending on your farming method.

    What happens in Shin'en encounter?
    You characters are arranged at bottom with positions 1-6 like this:

    O O 1 2 O O
    O 3 O O 4 O
    5 O O O O 6

    Shin'en spawns at center and there are two staves. 2 kinetic traps are spawned and each flies in a particular pattern, traveling to a corner and then firing a burst of 3 shots, then a new corner and 3 shots, etc.

    Ways you can die:
    Any character moving or being moved when a kinetic trap touches will take 6000 damage, unless immune to kinetic traps. Not sure what affect the tonberry otomo has on this.
    Getting hit by one of the kinetic blasts (again, character has to be moving or get moved to be hit) takes 4000 damage.
    If that's not enough, once you start moving the kinetic traps will respond by altering their movement pattern, tending to start a slow arcing path around your moving character and firing a burst of many shots.
    Staves can kill you very quickly with a virus attack that reduces life and then breath attack which deals high physical damage and also moves you, which may cause more damage from kinetic traps.
    Shin'en himself initially follows this pattern:
    1. Horizontal attack, probably physical damage, in the 2 rows he occupies
    2. Vertical attack, same details
    These attacks seem to one-shot most, if not all, characters.

    How do we tackle all of this?
    First, regarding the staves, the only really viable method I know of is to kill them immediately on the first turn with damage. They may be susceptible to status effects but this doesn't seem reliable. Allowing a staff to attack even once will likely ruin your run. More on this below.

    Next, the kinetic traps. There is an increasingly diverse amount of methods to dealing with this problem.
    1. "Alien mode" I.E. being able to move so quickly and skillfully that you can largely avoid kinetic trap damage. I do not recommend this method. If you can do this method then why are you reading my guide?
    2. Alien mode with 1 mover that has kinetic trap ward. This method is also very difficult as all your other characters are still susceptible to kinetic trap damage. If you're able to pull this off then I doubt you need my advice, so I won't really cover this. You may want to just glance at the part below regarding having enough DPS to finish off Shin'en.
    Relevant characters with kinetic trap wars include kraken kino^ (innate skill, can be equipped with otomo of your choice) and camellia (or ^ ) with camellia O otomo (available at times from trading post).
    3a. Having a character with kinetic trap disarm ability - equip.
    Currently, Mizel with her Mizel O otomo is the only character with this ability. This will allow you to use her as the mover and destroy the kinetic traps on the first turn. This makes the encounter much, much easier, but Mizel is rare Z class and her otomo was only available during a couple of trading posts (may become available again in future).
    3b. Having a character with kinetic trap disarm, self
    Two characters currently have access to this - Amina (or ^ ) with Amina O2 otomo (luck drop from hiso alien 8-bit), and 8-bit golem^ with his o2 otomo (luck drop from his 8-bit event).
    This skill activates ON PINCER so you still need to survive the traps on the first move, so I recommend also having a mover with kinetic trap ward.

    Regarding Shin'en, on turn 1 you must avoid his horizontal attack and on turn 2 you must avoid his vertical attack.

    Which characters do I need?
    If you have Mizel to destroy traps then you have a lot of flexibility for your other team members. You're going to need a lot of DPS (more on why later), you WON'T need any healing, you WILL PROBABLY need taps (probably 2 ATK taps), and control time is a good idea.
    Palpa^ is good for this event in position 6 because she has the +ATK tap and control time chain. She's a good character to put a kiss bottle on (if you're lucky enough to have one) since she's not really contributing to DPS anyway.
    Gatz^ is good because of +ATK tap and good DPS, berserker ability even doing good DPS in the chain.
    S'naip^ is good because of 1.5x stacking damage buff and godly DPS, including some off-pincer damage.
    Ma'curi is good for same reason.
    Suoh^ is good for PP amp (see below on 3-turn method) and strong DPS.
    Gugba is good for PP amp (see below on 3-turn method) and strong DPS.
    Amina/Amina^ and 8-bit Golem^ are good if you have their O2 otomo, for movement method 3b mentioned above. Amina has CT, as well, which may help. Golem has an AOE gigaboulder which shouldn't be discounted (see more on sufficient DPS below).
    Schweitz is good because ***
    [ Other characters can be added here depending on other player contributions or my own later research. ]

    Example of my farm team in correct order
    1 - Ma'curi with celestial envoy, using +1.5x damage, +10% ATK stacker, gigaspear, gigaspear cross
    2 - S'naip^ with bow of genji, +1.5x damage, +10% ATK stacker, tail spin, terabow
    3 - Gatz^ with celestial envoy, using +10% ATK and all his extra sword attacks
    4 - 8-bit golem^ with his o2
    5 - Camellia^ with her omicron, using +25% femme fatale attack and her strongest weapon attacks
    6 - Palpa^ with kiss bottle, CT+2 chain, regens, +10%HP

    Example of my setup/movement
    Example of linguist's setup

    Dealing with the kinetic traps - details
    [ Before moving, you may need to use 1 +ATK tap to get sufficient DPS for your first move goal, which is to kill both staves. Not all teams require this, I've heard. My guide isn't going to go into a lot of detail here because I only do it this one way - 1 tap at the start and 5 taps for the burst kill at the end - but other players posting may have input about alternative tap methods. I'll talk more about tappers and character requirements later. ]

    For method 3a, just use Mizel to destroy the traps and move your characters into the pattern shown below.
    My personal preference for dealing with traps, assuming method 3b above (for all those of us lacking mizel), is to have my first turn mover be in position 1. Wait for at least 1 of the traps to come to lower left corner and fire. As soon as it moves away, quickly use your mover to move your units into these positions
    (S is staff):

    1 O O O O 2
    S O O O O S
    3 O O O O 4
    O O O O O O
    O O O O O 6

    Note that mover ending position isn't shown. It really doesn't matter too much. Just avoid Shin'en's horizontal attack. Positioning near 4 or 5 spot is probably best for getting ready for your 2nd movement turn. If you're using Cam^ then she has gigaspear cross that can hit Shin'en twice if she's under him and in the chain, but it's only about 3000 damage total, maybe not significant.

    In my experience, you generally want at least one of the traps to come to the lower left corner where your mover is, do it's shot, and then move away, and then that is when you start your move. The reason is, if you start your move when the traps are up high, they have more chance of coming down low where you're doing all of your movements, increasing chances of 6000 damage contacts. Most or all characters can withstand 1 4000 damage hit, if leveled, but not too many characters for this event can withstand a 6000 damage hit (though a few can).

    It might take you quite a lot of attempts before you start to feel comfortable with the kinetic trap patterns. I hope you're familiar with the S/L technique. Don't be ashamed to use it a lot, at least at first. I'm pretty sure most people that came before you had to do the same. That's part of the difficulty of this fight. I can promise that it gets easier as you keep trying.

    It's worth noting that each time you start the encounter, the traps will follow a certain pattern. This is your one chance to get this pattern right. If you fail and S/L, then the 2nd time the encounter loads, the pattern will be different. However, the pattern will now (generally) stay the same for 3rd, 4th, etc tries, so you can learn the pattern, try different start times, etc.

    Hopefully, once you're able to get your characters into position without their dying, this positioning will set up a double pincer that allows you to kill both staves. Remember, if a staff is allowed to have its turn then your run is probably ruined.

    Shin'en will do his horizontal attack and move. He won't hug any walls.
    If you're doing move 3a (mizel) and the traps are already destroyed, then great, move your team to create a double left-right pincer against the boss. Remember he's going to do a vertical attack next. You probably want to have stacking damage buff characters like S'naip^, Ma'curi, etc, go on the second pincer, not the first. Remember, the lower pincer will go before the higher pincer unless your mover started a pincer.
    If you're doing move method 3b (other trap disarmer) then things are more complicated. Hopefully, first off, your trap disarm ability triggered. If it didn't, then theoretically you have a chance to continue on while avoiding the kinetic traps, but personally I just S/L at that point, try the first move again and get the disarm trap ability to trigger. You may want to level up the otomo for sanity purposes.
    Once you've done the first move, killed the staves, and the kinetic disarm has activated, then for your second move you use your character with that skill to quickly move over the kinetic traps (they vanish) and then get your characters into position for double left-right pincer as described above.

    Shin'en will do his vertical attack and move. Reposition your characters for a double pincer, remembering who your +ATK damage stackers are and getting them in the 2nd pincer. This time it doesn't matter if you position left-right or up-down pincers. Note that if you're using Ma'curi with megaspear column, then you will do more damage if you do up-down pincers. But that amount of damage might not be important.

    What does Shin'en do now?
    Dealing enough DPS

    Here we come to a crossroads. I will have to look up HP thresholds later. If you didn't hit the HP threshold / didn't deal enough DPS, then Shin'en will cast roulette on a random character (killing them) and resummon staves. (Kinetic traps will resummon on the next turn). You're pretty much screwed at this point. You didn't have enough DPS to hit the HP threshold, so you probably don't have enough DPS to kill him on this turn, even with 5 taps. Your only hope is to have the roulette land on one of your weakest DPS'ers, and then you need to re-pincer the staves, killing both of them, without using 1 of your 6 taps (or go ahead and use one if you have 9, just save enough DPS for killing blow later). Remember, if staves get to have a turn against you then you're done. Also remember to avoid Shin'en's horizontal (I think) attack. Honestly not sure if he reverts to horizontal here or switches things up with a vertical. I don't know because if you're landing here you need to improve your team's DPS for easy farming.
    There is one other hope for you if you land here. This worked for me once (early pre-farming days, actually my first capture). One of the staves spawned in a position that allowed me to triple pincer, getting THREE damage stacks on S'naip instead of just 2. This allowed me enough DPS to burst down Shin'en on this turn with 5 taps.
    I suppose you could also go for more DPS on Shin'en and hope the staves somehow don't kill you on their turn. Good luck with that.
    If you DID hit the HP threshold / DID deal enough DPS on the previous turns, then Shin'en will instead dispel all resistances, move, and send a message "You spot a breach in his defenses." This is the signal to KILL HIM NOW. If you don't, he will use a super-ultra-long punching bag on you the next turn which is sure to kill your whole party, probably even with evasive arts, olber^, defense capsules that you saved up (remember he just dispelled all resistances), etc. It could be tested for survivability but looks like a long shot.
    So to KILL HIM NOW you do 5 taps and create a double pincer as before, with proper DPS characters in proper alignment, with power point incorporated. If you're using 8-bit golem^ then be sure to have him adjacent to the boss so his gigaboulder area attack hits. If you've got enough DPS then Shin'en will die. If this was your first success then you'll recruit Shin'en^. If this was not your first success, and if you had a kiss bottle, then you'll recruit him with 100% success instead of 50%.
    Remember, if you're doing movement 3a then you have a lot more leeway with party composition to maximize DPS, and also this boss should just be really easy, so I'm not going to go in depth on that one. Lucky sods!

    Fast Power Point with Gugba
    It's possible, thanks to Gugba's power point amp and tremor ability, to get power point on 3rd turn and then use that power point with 5 taps and sufficient other DPS to kill Shin'en on 3rd turn. This bypasses roulette, breach in defenses, etc. See this video for example. [ Note that he didn't kill on turn 3, probably could have with s'naip^ instead of reg s'naip and/or with better otomo. Note that he's doing movement method 2 and got lucky Shin'en movements in this example - be prepared to S/L a lot if this is your team! ] This method isn't too important if you have a kinetic disarmer but is a lot more interesting if you're trying movement method 1 or 2, because you shave off an entire turn where things can potentially go very bad with the kinetic traps.
    Suoh^ also has power point amp..... but no tremor. It makes a difference. You might not be able to get 3rd turn PP amp with Suoh^ (I couldn't in early testing). The more DPS skills you can cram in, the better. Maybe someone else in forum knows more about this.

    Other ways to defeat Shin'en?
    Could be be beaten with A'misandra^ healing up kinetic damage each turn and bestowing death ward on the party to block roulette? What about shenanigans with Olber^ ? I don't know. Good luck figuring that out (I'm not going to try).

    = = =
    = = =
    = = =

    Original post:
    Hey guys,

    So the other Shin'en and Mutoh thread is really difficult to follow. There is a lot of off-topic chatter in the thread and none of the boss characteristics are really spelled out. The videos are great on the one hand but on the other hand they're not really helpful for those of us who don't have those characters.

    Is there some way to distill the info into here?
    What phases does he have?
    What *kinds* of characters are needed?
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
    SatchmoBGW, tieuzbao, Rocco and 2 others like this.
  2. shokakao

    shokakao Member

    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    24
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Boss has 2 known phases.
    Phase 1 :
    - row
    - column
    - death roulette + add spawn
    - repeat ? who cares, if we don't skip the phase 1 we loose.

    Phase 2 : ~50% HP, not sure the real value
    - Boss cast at begining of the turn. You have to kill him on that turn. If you do, you win. If not you loose

    You'll need augment attack characters. At least 2 but it's better with 3.
    Pick you strongest DPS : Macuri, Snaip, Bahl, Suoz, Gatz, Gugba, ...
    Also take your best physical DD Companions (like CE, SkullSplitter, PetaWeap')
    Use Kraken if you are not an alien

    with 2 hoppers and no PP turn 3 :
    turn 1 : kill the adds (or para/sleep/demo/other?)
    turn 2 : double pincer
    turn 3 : double pincer + 2 tap -> skip phase 1
    turn 4 : double pincer + 4 tap + PP -> you win

    with 2 hoppers and PP turn 3 :
    turn 1 : 1 tap to kill ads
    turn 2 : double pincer
    turn 3 : double pincer + PP + 5 taps -> you win

    With 3 hoppers :
    Same except that you'all always have enought tap, even if you 'waste' one tap on monsters turn 1.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2016
  3. Todd

    Todd Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,017
    Likes Received:
    409
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2014
    Perfect post shokakao! Thanks a lot. I may try this and see if I get anywhere.
     
  4. Oki

    Oki Member

    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    24
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2016
    thank you, I will try this as well. I have two hoppers and Macuri, Snaip, Bahl

    I just need to move my toons carefully and I might have a chance to win!
     
  5. Quartzel

    Quartzel Active Member

    Messages:
    550
    Likes Received:
    208
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2014
    I wonder if Camellia with her O companion will make this easier.
    I'm waiting for her recode before attempting again (with 2 hoppers method).
     
  6. shokakao

    shokakao Member

    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    24
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    It depend if you lead a pincer with your Kraken, or not.
    I didn't lead any pincer with kraken, so, since Camelia has no Area 1/2 skill, she will be useless in my party for Shin'en.
    Or you can use both and have 1 extra character with kinetic collider invu
     
  7. yeezus

    yeezus Active Member

    Messages:
    698
    Likes Received:
    233
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2015
    She will be helpful, because she will be a mover and still have a decent amount of DPS, not to mention better stats and survivability than KK^.
     
  8. Todd

    Todd Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,017
    Likes Received:
    409
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2014
    KK^ survivability is a non-issue because the only way you're taking damage (and going on to succeed) is kinetic or the roulette

    I agree that camellia's usefulness over kk^ is questionable. Only 4 physical characters can pincer. Maybe bonna^ should be in the mix and camellia a mover and pincer. That would be the way to use camellia to increase the dps - camellia pincers well (presumably) and bonna^ gives decent physical chain damage as a 5th physical damage dealer.
     
  9. limitbereaker

    limitbereaker Active Member

    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    215
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2014
    Does game speed effect the blasters?
     
  10. Lightwalker

    Lightwalker Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    533
    Likes Received:
    289
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2014
    No!
     
    limitbereaker likes this.
  11. jarsoffeet

    jarsoffeet Active Member

    Messages:
    330
    Likes Received:
    197
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2015
    [​IMG]
    Easiest shin en team 100% success rate
    Pincer staffs first turn. Double pincer second turn double pincer pp 3rd turn for win.

    Another Possible team is gugba out for a 3rd tap. Then you 1 tap, 2 tap, 0 tap, 6 tap PP all in. This is a bit harder because traps come back on the after your third turn.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2016
    velbonhaha likes this.
  12. limitbereaker

    limitbereaker Active Member

    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    215
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2014
    Btw I'm using same team, do you think replacing gugba for yukken/\ works . I like to neg pro shin en
     
  13. jarsoffeet

    jarsoffeet Active Member

    Messages:
    330
    Likes Received:
    197
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2015
    You either need to get shin en under 50% hp or kill it on turn 3 to stop it from death roulette. Gugba gets you a PP by then or 3 tap characters will get you under 50%. I was lucky enough(at the time i thought it was unlucky) to get a kiss bottle from the last 20 CoT tickets. And i just throw that on Shcwiez since you dont need heals at all.
     
  14. Lightwalker

    Lightwalker Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    533
    Likes Received:
    289
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2014
    can you recapture in easy mode or only in hard mode still?
     
  15. Lightwalker

    Lightwalker Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    533
    Likes Received:
    289
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2014
    the only thing that bothers me is how easy mizell makes the task that took me weeks to accomplish; its comparable to writing a book by hand before the wordprocessor came along.
     
  16. Jeba

    Jeba Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    545
    Likes Received:
    552
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2015
    It should be possible, but you will need 4 turns instead of 3. I am using Zuoh for the 1% LB now. But yukken instead of zuoh should work too.
    1 tap, double Pincer, double pincer, 5 tap pincer with PP should work!
     
  17. shokakao

    shokakao Member

    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    24
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Why is Mizell good for Shi'nen ?
    Does she have special ability or something ?
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2016
  18. jarsoffeet

    jarsoffeet Active Member

    Messages:
    330
    Likes Received:
    197
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2015
    Mizel O(the one from trade post) has kinetic trap disarm so you can destroy the traps and they stay dead for 3 turns. Makes it super easy
     
  19. shokakao

    shokakao Member

    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    24
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    nobody want to farm this ugliest event ever.
    Is this otomo available in Cot ?
     
  20. another

    another Active Member

    Messages:
    468
    Likes Received:
    128
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2014
    Yes, it works... I did it this afternoon :)
     

Share This Page