[Guide] How Negotiator (Pro) and Treasure Hunter Works

Discussion in 'Guides' started by Kivanc, Dec 11, 2014.

  1. Kivanc

    Kivanc The Data Keeper

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    How Negotiator (Pro) and Treasure Hunter Works

    Hi everyone,

    This will be a small guide on how Negotiator, Negotiator Pro, and Treasure Hunter skills work. All data provided in the guide is extracted from the game directly (unless otherwise is noted), so there is no point arguing its correctness (unless MW changes the game code, which hopefully we will know :)).

    From this point on:
    Treasure Hunter = TH
    Negotiator = Neg.
    Negotiator Pro = Neg. Pro

    Currently, there are 2 characters with Neg. Pro (Yukken and Rikken), 1 character with Neg. (Samatha), and 2 characters with TH (Alika and Gatz). All Negotiators are SS-class and all Treasure Hunters are S-class.

    Although Neg. (Pro) and TH skills are different because TH is an equip skill (i.e., always active as long as you include that character) and Neg. (Pro) is a chain skill that lasts for 1 turn, they are similar enough to be included in the same guide as they both affect the default drop rate for items/monsters.

    Let's start with the easy one:
    How Treasure Hunter Works
    TH increases the base drop rate of an item by 25%. So, to calculate the final drop rate for an item, use the following formula:
    Code:
    Effective drop rate = base drop rate * (1 + 0.25 * number of treasure hunters in the team)
    
    As you can identify from the formula, TH is stackable.

    Examples:
    20-1 final boss drops Moon Tears with 20% base drop rate. If you have one TH in the team, then
    Effective drop rate = 20% * (1 + 0.25) = 25%
    If you have two TH in the team, then
    Effective drop rate = 20% * (1 + 0.25 * 2) = 30%

    Please note that TH does not affect the drop rate for monsters; that is Neg. (Pro)'s job. Also note that TH takes effect before the Daily Bonus multiplier, meaning that TH only affects the base drop rate.

    How Negotiator (Pro) Works
    In essence, Neg. (Pro) works very similar to TH, Neg. increases the base drop rate of a monster by 2x and Neg. Pro increases the base drop rate of a monster by 8x. Similar to TH, Neg skills are stackable.

    However, Neg. (Pro) differs from TH, because negotiation only takes affect if the monster with the skill is part of the chain attack. Also, the skill is NOT passive, the effect lasts for one turn only.

    So, why would you care? The negotiations you do with a monster only takes affect when the monster dies. Again, remember that the negotiation effect lasts one turn. This means that if you can do multiple chain attacks on the same monster with the same Negotiator, you get multiplied effect. This is NOT easy to pull off and requires some practice, but awesome!

    Considering all of these, the final formula for Neg. (Pro) is:
    Code:
    Effective drop rate = base drop rate * (1 + number of negotiator activations in the last turn * 2 + number of negotiator pro activations in the last turn * 8)
    
    However, since Version 2.9.0 the Negotiator bonus has now been capped at 18, meaning that additional Negotiation procs will not affect an enemy's capture rate once the multiplier hits 18.

    Example:
    Tiamat (28-9 boss) has a 5% default drop rate.

    If you kill him by using a single pincer attack using Samatha (Neg.), then
    Effective drop rate = 5% * (1 + 2) = 15%

    If you kill him by using a single pincer attack using Yukken & Samatha (Neg. Pro and Neg.), then
    Effective drop rate = 5% * (1 + 2 + 8) = 55%

    If you kill him by using dual pincer attack (e.g., the last turn does two attacks where both Yukken and Samatha activates Neg. and the second hit kills Tiamat) Yukken & Samatha, then
    Effective drop rate = 5% * (1 + 2 * 2 + 2 * 8) = 105%. However, because of the cap to the Negotiator bonus, the actual effective drop rate stops at 95% because the max multiplier is (18+1).

    How Does This Affect Me?
    Well, for once, we understand that without Negotiator Pro, farming monsters, especially for skill boosts, is futile. For detailed drop rate of monsters, please refer to: http://terrabattleforum.com/threads/comprehensive-character-monster-data.4798/

    Neg. Pro has a substantial more effect compare to Neg. A forum member (please remind me if you know yourself :)), mentioned that initially this skill was called "Sister in Arms" and required both Yukken and Rikken to be activated. That explains the initial 8x bonus. Thanks to Japanese Gatcha law, MW had to revise the skill so that each sister can activate it, however forgot (or decided not to) debuff it.

    TH does not have a huge effect on item drop rates since the bonus is relatively small. However, it is a passive skill and you need to hunt items pretty much for the whole time, so even a small increase, IMHO is welcome.

    Tips and Tricks
    This is more for Neg. (Pro) activation to maximize the gain with multiple activations. TH is passive, so there is not much to discuss.

    For a 2x2 boss, I suggest using the following attack Scheme to get to activations from your Neg. (Pro) user:

    W-S-N
    B--B
    B--B
    W-S

    W: weak character without Neg. (Pro)
    S: strong character without Neg. (Pro)
    N: Neg (Pro) user
    B: Boss

    Finish the combo either with Neg. (Pro) user, or one of the weak characters. This way, first, you will hit with your weak characters (and activate Neg (Pro) on the boss) and then you will (hopefully) kill the boss with the strong characters (and activate Neg Pro again).

    I never thought that this could be done for 1x1 monsters, (credits go to @Lionel for figuring this out)
    ----S--N
    W-M-W
    ----S

    W: weak character without Neg. (Pro)
    S: strong character without Neg. (Pro)
    N: Neg (Pro) user
    M: Mob

    Again, finish the move with either the Neg. (Pro) user and/or one of the weak characters. At the end, hopefully your weak characters will not kill the mob (but will get you a Neg. (Pro) activation and your strong characters will kill the mob (and get you another Neg. (Pro) activation.

    All babbling, where are my examples?
    Outflank Negotiate:
    I am very new to this and still feels difficult to pull off and weird. Still, just to give you an idea...
    https://www.kamcord.com/v/ZeZAS4tKX18

    If you have any questions or comments, let us know. Feel free to discuss these two skills in more depth as well.

    We hope you enjoy this guide and use better understanding of these skills to your advantage during farming.

    ~ Terra Battle Forum Staff.

    Contributors
    Guide compiled by @Kivanc. All data is extracted by @jnalyz and used with his permission.

    Disclaimer & Copyright
    Mistwalker can change how Negotiator (Pro) and Treasure Hunter skills work or the base drop rate for monsters and/or items at any given time with a direct or stealth update. Although we will do our best to update the information when such an update happens, Terra Battle Forum takes no responsibility due to potentially stale information provided in this guide.

    You can use this information in another web site, provided that the content is not changed and proper credit given to myself, @jnalyz, and this forum.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2015
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  2. sendru

    sendru Active Member

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    Thank you for your precise guide.
    and long live for sisters in hands
    IMG_0985.jpg IMG_0994.jpg IMG_0995.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2014
  3. matelian

    matelian Active Member

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    Are all the bosses have the same base drop rate of 5% ??
    If so its:
    25% on a double pincer attack with Samatha
    85% on a double pincer attack with Yukken / Rikken

    anything else is a guaranteed drop :)
     
  4. Kivanc

    Kivanc The Data Keeper

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    Yes, almost all main story bosses. Still check the data guide to get the exact amount.
     
  5. xAobax

    xAobax Well-Known Member

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    I know is RNG, but i get usually more drops when Gatz is doing the pincer attack :/ RNG vs %drop rate....for me at the moment, RNG wins.
    Awesome guide Kivanc ;)
     
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  6. Cinna

    Cinna New Member

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    Really helpful and informative. Thanks for the guide Kivanc and the datas jnalyz.
     
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  7. matelian

    matelian Active Member

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    Just tested it a couple of times. You can change the outcome of the fight if u mansged to pull 2 * Neg.Pro. skills in a row.
    Game changer yo :D
     
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  8. Zebra

    Zebra Active Member

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    Does Neg.Pro stack with Neg.Pro?
    Say if I have all three of the negociation characters would it help even more?
     
  9. sendru

    sendru Active Member

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    Is that to say, RNG will be calculated on each turn to decide whether the monster is dropped.
     
  10. haloo

    haloo New Member

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    are TH and Neg.pro work together? can a monster drops monster and item at the same time?
    P.S: just test it myself :) I have Gatz and Yukken in my team and there's a monster that drops both.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2014
  11. Twintails

    Twintails Active Member

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    Yes because more Negotiator Pro procs if you check the code again.
     
  12. Kivanc

    Kivanc The Data Keeper

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    Most of them are answered but just to recap:

    Yes, negotiators and treasure hunters stack.

    Yes, a monster can drop and item and can join to your cause (e.g., drop itself :D)
     
  13. matelian

    matelian Active Member

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    3 procs from your 3 Neg. users in one turn is a guaranteed drop.
     
  14. frznnguyen

    frznnguyen Member

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    When I read that TH increases the base drop rate of an item by 25% I thought that 25% would be added to the drop rate (i.e. 20% [base drop rate] + 25% = 45%)...
     
  15. Kivanc

    Kivanc The Data Keeper

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    Unfortunately not. I believe the wording I use is correct but let me know if there is a better phrasing. If you look at the formula, you realize that this is not the case.
     
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  16. Kivanc

    Kivanc The Data Keeper

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  17. LongNH

    LongNH Member

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    Do Neg.Pro work with soft S/L?
    If monster dont drop itself, mean this turn drop rate is 0%, so drop rate with Neg.Pro is 0% * (1 + 8) = 0% ?
     
  18. Kivanc

    Kivanc The Data Keeper

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    There is no guaranteed info on this end, however we believe that it does not.

    The way, we think the way drops work is that, when you enter a floor, each capturable monster rolls a random number, let's say between 0-100.

    Then, when you kill a monster, if your final drop rate is above the random number that the monster has rolled, it drops.

    For example,

    If the monster rolled 22 and if the base drop rate is 2%, then.
    Normal kill => won't drop
    One negotiator pro activation => won't drop
    Two neg. pro activation => drop

    In other words, if you don't get a drop with all possible activations, we don't think soft SL will change the drop.
     
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  19. Adeline

    Adeline New Member

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    I've somewhat abused that in my farming sessions so I can tell that this isn't how it works. Abusing S/L and the fact that drop rates (even for monsters) are not affected by the S/L, you actually have two chances to get the monster drop :

    - Monster drops with a normal (no Neg.Pro activation) kill : you can safely S/L and this monster will always drop when killed without Neg.Pro activation, even if you kill others before or change the actions you take in the turn. However, it may not drop if killed with Neg.Pro!
    - Monster does not drop with a normal (no Neg.Pro) kill : you can S/L and try to kill it while activating Neg.Pro, there is a chance it will drop then.

    If the monster doesn't drop with either, no amount of S/L'ing will allow you to get it on that run.
     
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  20. Vagou

    Vagou Well-Known Member

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    So if I use only one Neg.Pro on Tiamat at 5% I get:
    - Single pincer: 5 * (1 + 8) = 45%
    - Double pincer 5 * (1 + 8 + 8) = 85%
    Correct?
     

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