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Discussion in 'General' started by Silver Mitsuki, Nov 7, 2016.
Special rule : @Elelyon, @Jeba and @Dreydus can not run this tournament 'cause they're too OP.
Officially retired from all forms of PvP There is no time when you have to sb 6 hours a day and spend another hour on Alt
We could finally have that Dragon Cup that was teased so long ago!
Agree, but I also have a vague memory of you being on top of the charts too xD
So much wasted potential...
His suggests otherwise. He will probably come out of retirement with the right incentive
How could I argue with that
I really like this idea but the B monsters not are the same of B characters as regenercell as kuscah (for example).
Please did it, I really love the PVP and I don't want to dissapear
Of course, adventurers always had the advantages of having both higher stats and more (varied) skills (although they can't be Skill-Boosted easily as monsters by re-recruiting them from the story chapters); for this reason, on a "point system" they'd have a lower cost (e.g. Mantledrake 1 point, Kuscah 3-4 points).
I played a PvP match against @andr3174 yesterday: each of us used only 1 unit/companion from each class (1 Z, 1 SS, 1 S, ... ) and as many B classes we wanted, with few exceptions (no White Orbling companions, no Lamia Eidolon, no Shin'en/Mutoh/Gegonago/Bahl/S'naip/Ma'curi) and came out something of a little more interesting of the usual matches, although the superiority of the recoded units was evedent :S
So far, I like my "points system" more than anything else I saw and I think that, alongside to a "discounted price" for having a low SB* , could actually provide us the balanced PvP experience we're looking for
* The cost of every unit might be increased by "SB" %; taking, let's say, Harold [4 points] as example (that, thanks to his "30%" skills has a 100% activation rate once reached 70% SB), we'd have:
Harold 0% = 4 points
Harold 35% = 6 points
Harold 70+% = 8 points
Giving the opportunity to new and unexperienced players to take part to the tournament with stronger units.
So long I didn't read people complaining about this, so... are we going to define some "costs" and test it before this PvP event ends or someone has better ideas?
It might be nice to have different point tiers, that way both people with limited rosters and people who want to use a bunch of the best units could enjoy the cup, just in different tiers.
Just remember: if the rules get too complicated, some people will lose interest.
Yup, know that but is always a nice reminder.
Right now can't spend time on it, with some luck I'll do it on Saturday (maybe when watching the weekly stream).
I'd like to see how rules like "only A and B class characters" turn out, but finding something that advantages the new players (with few units) might be a little more challenging :3
Right now the only thing I know for sure is that Teams might actually solve the "time-schedule" problems of many.
Ok, since someone (not going to say names, but certainly it wasn't @Dreydus) pulled this out on chat, I want users to understand that we're not going to have a Tournament this weekend, just some tests.
I started the thread only with the intention
and we still don't have a clear idea on how to balance it for everybody, how to make it a pleasant experience for both experienced and new players, students and workers.
Between this evening and tomorrow I'll define some guidelines and I'd like to do some tests with you during the weekend; as always, you'll find me on chat, but you can post here any question you have
Say @silver how about making a bracket for adventurers i.e overpowered/most used unit brackets where tb veterans have most of the units and they play here. A mildly/likely used units like bahl, snaip, the ss mages and their recoded forms are the hihghes rarity available this is where someone who is on a fresh golden road plays. Lastly are the hardly/under used units, where the highest rarity are the SS or S recoded units play here.
You can apply the point system to team building on the brackets aswell. Everyone can play on any bracket if they have the units but they might get thrashed if they played on the highest difficulty when everyone has Zolbers Gegoz and shinens lol
lol, that's one of the reasons behind the point system: not every class will have the same cost and if you want to play with a strong unit like, I don't know, let's say... Gego Λ (xD) you know that most of the points you could have used for building a strong team are already gone
Good idea, but there's only a little problem: among the active TBF users, I constantly see veterans and players with (almost) every unit available: separating the newer players from the older ones might actually put them in a very limited pool, without the chance to face different opponents.
Also, among the players without most of the Pact of Truth cleared, some might have more important things to do during the week(end), emptying their pool even more :S
Anyway, another random idea, we might let the players pick their opponents, or make them choose a team first (like daily) and match them with players that picked a "point-wise" similar team, without setting a higher cap: this way, there can be teams of GegoZ+Trinity as teams of Grace+Ba'gunar
... anyway, the problem is still about the number of active players: I think that even if smaller pools can actually help players to enjoy the event more, a bigger one can bring more varied teams and strategies, avoiding players to be matched always with the same opponents and giving them more chances to find someone online...
What about fairly simple rules like no Z/^ units or Trinity? Not sure if that would devolve into SS Mage teams or not but that would kneecap the core of most standard PvP builds and hopefully get people working outside the box.
I do also like a weighted system but you'd still have to remove Trinity as they are undercosted for their damage output.
I think this could work only if every player have access to every unit available: new players who spent hours/days rerolling for a lambda and those who, after days of farming finally recoded their favourite unit would be cut off from the event (and exceptions like "we'll let you use this character, since you don't have any other good unit for the event" don't seem very fair and objective)
We can't get everything to be fair... How about "themed" pvps with added conditions (a), (b), (c) and/or (d) for example:
1. Only A-class adventurers and below
(a) Females only
(b) No lizardfolks or beastfolks
(c) No humans or stonefolks
(d) A-rank companions and below only
2. Recruitable monsters only
(a) Maximum of one healer
(b) Mandatory to bring in one spear, one bow, one sword character
(c) All staffs only
(d) Only Hiso Aliens allowed for eidolon
Also, I don't think we should factor in SB. Too many things to note and makes things complicated. Besides, if playing with 5% SB vs 100% SB, the 5% SB player is probably too casual to even bother about the 95% SB gap. If he did bother, he would have pumped the SB higher. This would also encourage people to SB more.
The 'fairest' match would be to use recruitable monsters only.
How about this system; let's say I play in the Recoded bracket where the highest unit cap are Zs and lambda. For team building players have a limit of 100 points to spend on adventurers. An example team would be:
Gego^ = 25 points
A'misandra^ = 25
Bahl^ (Trinity^) = 30
Korin^ = 10
Ra'prow^ = 5
Sh'berdan^ = 5
It's kinda balanced but we can work around the weight of points where everyone can agree on.
The next bracket would be the 3 job Z to SS and S including recodes that fall into SS and S but no recoded Z, so the limit for this bracket would be King, Invincible, Zavison, s'naip^. The points for adding the trinity^ to the team will also have to be adjusted. An example team.
S'naip^ (Trinity^) = 35
S'naip = 25
Kuscah = 10
Pahrl = 5
Olber = 20
Harold = 5
We just lower the rarity of the adventurers to accommodate the whole range of player base. So the lower bracket would be S, A and B class adventurers although no recodes can be picked. With this if veterans want to take part in the lower bracket where new and starting players this should put them on a level playing field. We can also take into account the adventurers SB% for points. Also I imagine we'll have to hold the matches in A League for the 2 lower brackets and S League is for the recoded bracket for the no holds barred PvP where everything and anything goes but the team composition is still limited by the point system.
I'm sure that will be a tiny minority for players here on the forum. Anyone without a reasonable roster available will likely have low skill boost, lacking decent OTOMOs and have other issues in a PvP tournament.
My suggestions were more meant to create variability in team composition for PvP via simple to follow rule. Most cups have maybe 8-10 units total that you will see mixed into competitive teams. I'd like to see that expanded to more interesting combinations. #MakeGugbaGreatAgain