KLB - Time & Strategy to clear A/B & S/SS pools

Discussion in 'Guides' started by doodootron, Mar 3, 2017.

  1. doodootron

    doodootron Member

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    I’ve seen a lot of people wondering how they should proceed now that everyone can LB farm. I did some calculations to find out how long it would take to LB my characters, so I thought I’d share them so you can find out how long it would take you.

    LINK TO SPREADSHEET (pretty self explanatory; this will help you find out how long it will take and keep track)


    HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE (THE MATH):

    This assumes you have already cleared PoFuck, including recoding Marilith, Lich, Suoh, Jaguna, and Camellia’s recodes to 100L. If everyone else starts at ZERO LB, this is how much LB you need to clear the Pact of Fate:
    • To clear A/B pool (Golden Road): 2,170 LB
    • To clear S/SS pool (Rainbow Road): 4,220 LB
    • To clear Z pool (LB’ed all pullable characters): 4,200 LB
    • TOTAL: 10,590 LB
    For my calculations I used 2 minutes per run—you can certainly clear each run faster than that, but mistakes happen, and the less AOE you have to work with (e.g. the A/B pool), the harder it is to wipe the floor quickly.

    I also used 0.12 LB/run—this is based on 100% chance of one runner, plus a 30% chance of a second runner appearing. I use 0.12 LB/run instead of 0.13 because it’s usually very hard to get both if they appear on the same floor, and, again, sometimes you just fuck up.

    Total time to clear pools, starting at ZERO LB:
    • A/B pool: 3,014 runs = 100 hours = 4.2 straight days
    • S/SS pool: 5,861 runs = 195 hours = 8.1 straight days
    • Z pool: 5,833 runs =194 hours = 8.1 straight days
    Time to clear pools, depending on how much LB you do per day (starting at ZERO LB):
    • A/B pool:
      • 5 LB/day = 2.4 months
      • 10 LB/day = 36 days
      • 15 LB/day = 24 days
    • S/SS pool (not including A/B figures):
      • 5 LB/day = 4.6 months
      • 10 LB/day = 2.3 months
      • 15 LB/day = 47 days
    • Z pool: (essentially the same as S/SS pool)

    MY ADVICE IF YOU’RE PLANNING ON UNDERTAKING:

    First off, I’d 100 LB your most useful characters, no matter what pool they’re in—these are your tappers, high DPS’ers, Gego, best healer, etc. It feels like this event will be around for a long time, but god forbid it isn’t, you’ll want to at least have gotten your best and most used characters to 100L.

    Next, I’d LB all your A/B’s, but using 5 A/B with 1 good AOE character (i.e. an S/SS character). That way, you can use your AOE character to clear most of the floor while carrying your shitty A/B’s.

    (Here’s my logic on also LB’ing your S/SS’s alongside A/B’s: once you get to Golden Road, you don’t want to risk pulling a Gold dupe, so you’re going to want to clear your current S/SS characters before pulling anyway.)

    Continue until you finish off your S/SS pool, and then you’re on Rainbow Road!

    As far as recoding goes, I would not bother recoding any characters unless you do not already have their recode. Yes, if you LB recodes by re-recoding them multiple times you will save a good amount of time in LB running. BUT, you are also using a TON of energy, which is the hardest thing to accumulate—there are 34 recodes in the pact, which is equal to roughly 100 pulls = 500 energy = about a year’s worth of energy JUST ON RECODING.

    (If you’re already or almost on Golden/Rainbow Road from clearing the SB pool, you have to ask yourself if it’s worth it to start over with LB—I would guess probably not, but holy shit do I hate SB’ing.)


    STRATEGY:

    Crackling Dracorin (the first one) is definitely faster in my experience.

    Make sure to space out your CT characters (try for just 1 CT character per party when starting out). This will be your sole mover, so you want to be sure that every party you run has one.

    Along with 5 A/B’s, have one good S/SS AOE’er in your party to wipe the floor quickly. For example: Gugba (clears all); Sh’berdan^ (3 columns + area 2); Bahl^ (3 rows + cross); SS Zerro/Piz/Jen/Lew; Grace^ and Daiana^ (each have area 2); etc.

    Otomos:
    • Equip your CT character (mover) with Timeless Hourglass (another CT+2sec).
    • Staff of Poseidon/Zeus/Chaos/Apollo (giga cross MATK) are your best friends. Even equipped on the weakest MATK B character, they’ll still kill all the non-boss enemies. Put these on as many of your non-movers as you can.
    • If you don’t have many of the above, you can use a Trident for 1 column ATK (evolve from iron spear > silver spear), or any otomo with an area (1) attack.
    Killing runners:
    • The feather otomo sucks—use CT+2sec instead.
    • If the runner is near a corner, try to corner it there with another character.
    • If the runner is in the middle of the arena, set and try to force it into a trap (e.g. space out your other characters with 1 space in between each of them, then FREAK OUT next to the runner until it gets itself pincered).
    • FLOOR 1: if it’s near the bottom, you should be able to pincer it along the bottom row; just take your time.
    • FLOOR 2: if it’s anywhere near the right side of the screen, close off either the top or the bottom, then force it into a trap between the right wall and the stack of enemies.
    • FLOOR 3: try setting traps and coax it into one.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
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  2. LegendaryFrog

    LegendaryFrog Well-Known Member

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    An excellent rundown. Thanks for this.

    A few things I'd like to add from experience.
    1. Capsules and magic bombs work very well for cornering the Runner since it can't move through them.
    2. If the runner ends up in the middle I like to create a wall with my characters to force it to one side, then I box it into a quadrant and force it into the corner. I've found that the 'freak out' tactic doesn't always work since the Runner might move in any direction or you might 'freak out' too close and scare it through your trap.
    3. To save some time you can remove all extra skills except for Ring and Corner area spells of which you only need one each.
    4. Ministache and Mustache are a great way to further limit skill activation on characters you don't want/need activating skills.
    5. You can also switch characters to a less 'time-consuming' job like Bahl's J3. Her J3 skills are two equips, a Tera sword and a counterattack which is actually useful if you miss adds chasing down the running. Just don't pincer with her and you can speed up the run. Every little bit helps.
     
  3. Alens

    Alens Member

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    I'd like to add one more thing to not waste time:
    If you mess up the pincer in the first runner (either in the 1st, 2nd or even 3rd floor), GIVE UP and start over. It's way more faster than having to wait for the enemys' moves and hoping a second runner will appear in a later stage. Starting again makes sure you have at least one runner waiting for you.

    I don't think that recoding a character is a bad idea as you can get 14, 19, 28, 33L from monsters (depending on the character) which is not bad at all; re-recoding several times it is.
    For example: you get Bahl (5 energy). You raise her to 70L and recode her; you get a 98L Bahl^. You get a Bahl again (5 energy) and go to 70L. Total Luck raised: 70 + 70 + 2 (the remaining gap from Bahl^)= 142L. Total energy used: 10 energy.
    If you don't recode: Bahl costs 5 energy and 70L. Bahl^ costs 5 energy and 100L; total 170L and 10 energy.


    By the way, for me the Feather Otomo works just fine. Freak out the runner until it gets in contact with a character and then approach the other side SLOWLY. Try not to surround the runner with your mover but to come straight from one direction. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
  4. Caliban

    Caliban Active Member

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    ^^Featherfoot is a godsend in this stage if you use it right. Use the featherfoot-equipped mover to move your own units next to the runner (as opposed to trying to scare the runner over to your units) and then once it's next to a unit, approach slowly from the other side of the pincer. It's virtually guaranteed although it does require a fair amount of attention- you can't casually LB farm like you can SB farm in 2-1 by just mindlessly swiping the same two tiles back and forth. The upside is that it's a little more interesting and engaging than SB farming, the downside is that it's harder to multitask- e.g., if you're trying to watch TV at the same time, you'll either miss something important on TV because you were trying to get the squirmy runner in the right place or you'll accidentally let the runner get away because something interesting happened on TV while you were in the middle of a move... the struggle is real
     
  5. Juicy

    Juicy Active Member

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    Thanks for the great guide and the spreadsheet. I was actually following this guide before I even registered here in the forums :D
    Anyway, take a gander on my LB progress (pls click dis thx). I've forgotten my start date, all I remember is that I was LBing literally everyday during March and April. Looking at my spreadsheet, I realize that my LB pace is pretty good (if I do say so myself), but the rate of getting new characters isn't. It doesn't help that I get like 2-3 dupes in every 50-energy pull, which is a waste of precious 10-15 energies. And I never got any natural Z, what's up with that?
    At present, I have no more PoT units to LB and I'm just waiting for the next 2S/10. I still have 7 silvers left, or maybe 9 since I also want to recode Daiana and Nakupi after LB70 when I get them.
    Now, I wonder what's the most cost-efficient way to reach golden road from here. I have two options to consider:
    A. Soloyolo 2 or 3 new silvers to somehow avoid potential multiple dupes (hence saving energy) and LB them out of pact, rinse and repeat, ad infinitum; or
    B. Roll 50 energy as usual, with a good chance of getting new gold/rainbow characters and silver dupes.​
    To be honest, I'm leaning myself more in option A since I don't really mind LBing only 2 or 3 units at a time. But considering the upcoming new characters this month(?), option B might be still a viable and enticing choice. Opinions would be appreciated.
     
  6. Allatar

    Allatar Active Member

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    I did option A and it worked fine (almost since i had plenty gold to LB, and "waste" 15 energy on gold/rainbow dupes and while trying to pull my last silver), but if you yolo for 2 new silvers, odds for dupes in the first 2 rolls are low (1/7~15%) while if you go for 3 it will increase quite a bit (~40%) to have at least one dupe in the first three rolls
     
  7. Leosteh

    Leosteh New Member

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    Hi, I would like to clarify one matter..

    Let's say my A/B class characters are all fully LB'ed, when i pull from pact of fate, will I have a chance of getting characters that I do not own yet? Or will I be getting characters in S/SS/Z classes that I currently own and boost their luck instead?
     
  8. Akemnos

    Akemnos Member

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    depends on what exactly you have. you state that your A/B characters are fully luck boosted but if you do not have every A or B character you are likely to pull one of them.

    If you do have all of them luck boosted than If you were to pull an S class Adventurer, you would have an equal chance to gain either a new S class or a duplicate of a current S class you have.
     
  9. LegendaryFrog

    LegendaryFrog Well-Known Member

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    If a character is at max luck they are completely removed from the Pact of Fate (Energy) which will increase your chance at getting different characters in their respective pools because there are fewer characters to roll against. There is a caveat, however. Removing an individual A/B (Silver) does NOT increase your chance for pulling a S/SS (Gold) or Z (rainbow) unit. The only way to increase the drop rate on Gold and Rainbow units is to completely LB all Silver units. Until you remove all Silver units from the pact you will always have the same chance to pull Silver units even if there is only one Silver unit left at 79.9 Luck. Once you remove all Silver units you will only pull Gold and Rainbow cards (we call it the Golden Road), but at a rate of ~90% for Gold and ~10% for Rainbow. Regardless if a character is at L0 or L50 as long as they are not maxed you have the same chance of pulling any remaining character in their respective pacts.

    I hope I explained this well.
     
  10. Sean Bond

    Sean Bond Well-Known Member

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    To piggy-back on what Frog said, the only time you'll experience guaranteed higher-tier pulls is during one of the pulling events. For example, let's say you LBed every SS in the pool; if one of the "1 SS+ guaranteed when you pull 10 times" events come by, if you pull then, you'll be guaranteed a Z character (because you're out of SSs, and MW has guaranteed either an SS or Z pull).

    The only other thing to mention, is that if you have, say 1 silver character left, and that character has (again, let's say) 50L currently, if you pull 10 times you will pull more gold/rainbows than usual, because you will only be able to pull the silver character 4 times (5 Luck each pull, max of 70 Luck). The other 6 pulls will be a mix of gold and rainbow (you can see this in action if you complete the coin pools).
     
  11. Ael

    Ael Active Member

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    I would like to add an important thing : as soon as you miss to pince the first runner (impossible to get all of the from my experience), give up immediatly the level and do it again.
     
  12. SetsunaF

    SetsunaF Active Member

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    Is Dracorin^ worth using? IME when the bonus runner show up it's always together with another one, so it's always 2x runners. Most of the time i fail to pincer both, so at the end of the day not using it feels like more efficient for me....
     
  13. tieuzbao

    tieuzbao Active Member

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    Yeah if you don't have a time otomo like an eternity hourglass and a CT+4 character as a mover, I wouldn't bother with Dracorin^.
     
  14. Ael

    Ael Active Member

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    Sometime I feel usefull to have 2 runner to pince at least one.
     
  15. phoenix_stealer

    phoenix_stealer Member

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    Hi, this topic might have some changes on it, with the remove of possibility to pull recode characters.

    By any chance, is there a topic with a list of characters you should recode, and characters you could forget ?
    By example, i guess it's a bad idea to recode zerro, because of Seiryu^.

    Is it possible to do a list of "needed" recode for end game ?

    at first glance, i'll said that some characters are nearly mandatory, but i'm not used enough to late game to confirm that.



    it might be the wrong topic, i was hesitating with this one : https://terrabattleforum.com/threads/luck-priority-list.12471/page-2.
    If it's a better idea and a moderator can move the topic, ty :)
     
  16. Rydia

    Rydia PinkPikaPony Staff Member

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    You only have to recode those characters you think you want to use.

    If you are a person who doesnt LB to clear pacts I would recommend to recode every character at least once (well you can skip stuff like Eileen^....) since is very likely you will be duping base forms anyway.

    If you are a person who LB to clear pacts you can just LB your base characters and only recode the ones you like/plan to use. If in the future you need a character you didnt recoded you can just recode them in that moment, like in example don't recode Djugan but LB him to 80L, then in case you need him you can instantly recode and level to have new 100L Djugan.

    Also which characters you want to recode or not depends mostly if you are a completionist and the rest of your account.


    From the current characters, the ones I would recommend to Recode are:


    Silver characters:

    Must recode: Snaip Bahl. Every account wants these ones.

    Recommended:

    Raprow (Outflank II). Recommended?
    Grace (is a decent archer)

    Optional:

    Bagunar (you can get his base form again by completing 4.3 so why not get a free character?)
    Pahrl/Korin/Kem Frequency and defense buffs so good recodes if you are low in SB
    Sh'berdan good for Weekly challenge and low level stages for his areas.
    Amerpact / Daiana^ Good mages, both have capsules. Low range but high DPS, specially in Amerpact.
    Eileen. Levitation and CT, with some status/regeneration, she has also inmunity to time traps so is a great option for those that are lacking a better levitation character like Gego
    Burbaba Sorry i couldnt find anything for you
    Velraine At least she is free?
    Jaguna
    Amazora ????


    So as you can see even the silver character recodes can be useful. So i would lean more towards recoding ALL characters, but if you want to skip some do it depending on what other things you own and what you need.

    Golden characters:

    Must recode: Bonna, Gegonago, Olber, Gatz, Yukken, Pizfer/Lewto/Jennish/Zerro (Zerro is skipable since there are TONS of graviton and dark mages, but she has a lot of area so I would recode her anyway, is a great forest carrier lol), Amina or Amisandra (pick one), Zafitte (MUST!!!), Palpa (you can skip her if you happen to be swimming in tappers), Suoh

    Recommended:

    Ellvern. If you have Hiso God i recommend you to recode Ellvern since he gives PP amp and tons of CT, so in certains situations (cough Sun King cough) he is superior to Gego
    Djugan. Augment circle. This one is nice and useful but there arent that many sword bosses right now (besides Agartha) to justify him being a "must"

    Optional:

    Alika. Another TH
    Koko/Samatha
    Puprope
    Rejin. Useful in some PVP cups and can be used in MZ6 if you dont have Seiryu yet
    Sh'aplar
    Camellia

    Rainbow characters:

    Must: Sayu, Feno, Mizell, Nazuna, Senala,
    Highly recommended: Beaune (unless you are swimming in Photon), Ginny (a must if you have Minidra)
    Optional: Andelucia, Lacuma


    I wrote this post a fast list and is very late in the night so it could have some mistakes, in any case the Must list are the characters that every account should have, no excuses, the rest can be recoded or not depending on what you own and your own personal tastes.

    This list is based on what i like and i can say that 95% of the time i use the recodes that are in "must", that I sometimes use the "recommended" ones and that i rarely/never use the recodes in the "optional" lists so I hope this gives people some insight towards what is more used towards endgame (at least by me LoL)

    This post was written in a rush at 4:30 AM so take the info here with a grain of salt :D
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
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  17. TrueShadow

    TrueShadow Well-Known Member

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    Hey, Eileen^ at least has a niche as a mover in Time Trap stages. That's more than Burbaba^'s.
     
  18. Rydia

    Rydia PinkPikaPony Staff Member

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    Oh yes, I think Eileen line got cut while editing xDDDDDD she has CT and levitation is a very useful recode until you get other stuff.

    Fixing it now thx :D
     
  19. phoenix_stealer

    phoenix_stealer Member

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    Hi,

    Thank you for advice Rydia, in fact i was already is this kind of state for my recoded champ.

    I began the Luck grinding festival, and i have one question.
    actually, i miss 1 character from silver pool : Bahl.
    All of them are recoded at 70 luck.
    What should i do :
    - pull one Time, 70% luck of obtaining Bahl.
    -- but i lost 5 energy.
    - pull 10 time in a Z event : probably 7 bahl, but at least i have one Z Pull.
    - wait for clearing ALL my current others characters, to be SURE to don't have dupe. (something like 9 characters to clear).


    Second question :
    Clearing A/B pool increase the rate of Z Pull, or only the rate of S/SS Pull ?

    - if it only increase S/SS pull (5% Z Pull, 95% S/SS pull), i will wait for clearing my S/SS before pulling bahl.
    - if it increase Z Pull (10% ?), i will take bahl quickly to increase my Z Pull in further pull.

    Thank you for answers and advices :)
     
  20. DEaK67

    DEaK67 Member

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    I'd say your best bet if bahl is your last silver and you have a team of 5 golds to Lb do single pulls untill you get bahl/ finish lbing her. Then pull during next z event otherwise youll end up getting at least 3-4 bahls during a 10 pull (Not that theres anything wrong with more then 1 Bahl shes the best)

    Not sure atm but i feel like clearing units just increases the % to pull of everything by a tiny amount. So it dosent matter what characters/pools you clear. The overall percent chance of pulling a certain character just changes by a tiny bit.
     

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