Melting PoT: SB, LB and candies

Discussion in 'General' started by Silver Mitsuki, Oct 17, 2018.

  1. Silver Mitsuki

    Silver Mitsuki The Italian Mod Staff Member

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    This and some of the following messages were originally posted in the thread Ver.5.5.0 The Final Update
    ===============================================

    Without starting a new thread, do any any of you have an update on which is the best stage where to farm the candy boxes among the Melting Pot stages?
     
  2. tilltheend

    tilltheend New Member

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    I'm still on human 2 with gugba clearing everything with a minidra. In my experimentation, there's not really a better chance of them to spawn in higher stamina ones than in the 5 stamina ones so I just do that one.
     
  3. Reis

    Reis New Member

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    If that the case, perhap Human 5 would be an even better choice since the stage's boss has a chance to drop a candy.
     
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  4. tilltheend

    tilltheend New Member

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    Didn't know they droped from the bosses. Gonna go dump a stamina bar on that and see how it goes.

    Alright, 44 runs, about an hour and 40 minutes (with a break here and there) and I got

    4 Level
    0 luck
    3 skill
    and only 1 luck and 2 skill candies from Ellvern. Definitely not worth the extra time and effort to me for 3 candies.
    Also decided to try a couple human 15 (because I forgot who the bosses were) and got no candy boxes but the bosses seem to drop candy more often. Never doing that again though.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2018
  5. Reis

    Reis New Member

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    I also did a full stamina run and the candy's drop rate is just too bad
     
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  6. Silver Mitsuki

    Silver Mitsuki The Italian Mod Staff Member

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    each run takes a couple of minutes, and the chance for the candies to drop are pretty low...

    with 2 minutes and 5 stamina per run (i.e. 4 stamina considering the regen) a full bar takes about 42 runs (84+ minutes), the time to farm... I forgot the numbers, 12-14 Luck in the forest (to each unit in a team, with RR) to get maybe, at most, a dozen of candies and candyboxes of different types (~ 4/4/4 * 2)... again, I'm not the kind of guy who keeps in mind the exact numbers, but I got several runs with no drops at all as I got multiple spawns in a row.

    worth for me, as the only unit I have to finish to SB is Tsutsura (not going to SB less than 4-5 units at once, I'm not that passionate xD), maybe I'll also use the Luck candies I found to 100L Sarah.

    Might want to try the higher levels as well, keeping in mind the time and the effort they take.

    For now, if you are looking for a way to spend your stamina play the Tower of Temptation stages... by the way, anyone played Shin'en since the update? I wonder if the drop rates are still bad, with the "daily free (ad) pull" I don't see the reason to dump 500 stamina there to get a single ticket, unless they put hand to the numbers once more.
     
  7. Eblis

    Eblis Member

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    I haven't started to collect detailed stats yet on Melting Pot, but my initial numbers are similar to yours: roughly 6*0.2*1.5=1.8 (total) luck per two minutes in the Forest, 0.25*0.33*3=0.25 luck per two-minute run in Melting Pot. But boy is it satisfying to get three all at once from the candy boxes! I'm curious to recheck Shinen too...

    I haven't done many Tower runs yet, just through all of them once - what are the interesting drops there?
     
  8. tilltheend

    tilltheend New Member

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    Man, getting 4 luck candy boxes in 7 runs feels so good. I much prefer doing this because I don't have a RR and the forest is so tedious. Plus I have use for all the candy boxes.
     
  9. Silver Mitsuki

    Silver Mitsuki The Italian Mod Staff Member

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    Nothing of really special, but helices and random recode items drop quite often, plus the Reinforcement items that, for those who don't have the full roster 100% SB, can be quite helpful on some stages as it adds an extra character to the map. The drop rate makes, from my point of view, these stages more appealing than Shin'en as it gives me the feeling I'm using my stamina (and my time) to actually farm something.

    Going a little OT now, I think I did the math wrong in my last post, the numbers should be closer to 12 per hour, with 0.2 (*1.5) per minute (or a little more, 1:10, 1:20 at most). I use a CT+2 character with a CT+4 companion, usually one turn clearing each floor.

    Especially if you need to SB someone and know the pain of SBing!
     
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  10. mudamuda

    mudamuda Active Member

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    I have been running Lucia IV to farm luck and it's been comparably less painful than the forest. Usually 2 orblings(0.6L) will spawn and you're guaranteed to kill it if you surround it. Even if you get two of them at once side-by-side or next to another mob(preventing you from trapping them) the kill rate is still pretty high. Of course you can only run it 4 times with 1 stamina bar, but ~2.4 luck/bar(~10L in gains per day of stamina) is way easier for a non-grinder to manage than toiling away in the forest(that's ~50 runs to 10L compared with about 16 runs).

    Although I'd prefer not to have to grind luck at all, because I'm not going to get anywhere with it anyway. The only reason why I'm doing it is because I might as well get some luck while I'm SB'ing. Without the guaranteed Z pacts the road to the Sun King could not be farther :/
     
  11. Silver Mitsuki

    Silver Mitsuki The Italian Mod Staff Member

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    Lucia IV is a godsend as it helps to both LB and burn stamina in a short amount of time, but when you're out of both Z/recoded characters, tappers and even the silver trinity you stop getting benefits from it: last month, after I finished my 65L Bahl (it wasn't the easiest task) and did 10-20L worth of runs with Invincible and Lacuma (I also had pure physical in my team oc, plus the tap atk companion) I realized that it was taking me too many energies. Moving to the forest made everything a ton easier for me.

    I'm still crossing my fingers for MW to add a permanent 1S/10 or something, or a permanent Z up...
     
  12. Eblis

    Eblis Member

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    Aha, gotcha - I was worried I had missed something fun there, but this looks in line with what I've been getting. Until MW gets a clearer plan in place for Z draws, I don't think I'll be recoding anyone any time soon... Adding my voice to everyone clamoring for a unit/otomo Z rate solution, there's really no good use for energy or CTs right now, and no practical way to get Z otomos at all. Z units essentially require being rainbow road...

    I'll never complain about TB math :) Forest time definitely varies - who I'm LBing, what their animations are, whether I care enough to chain everyone up and SB at the same time, etc. etc. I think the best rate I get is about 1:10 or 1:20 a run too, more often 1:30 or 1:45 if I'm being good about SBing. But regardless, it's definitely way more efficient than candy boxes - the boxes just feel more satisfying!

    Speaking of, I tried a handful of Shinen runs, and I haven't seen any difference yet... Not enough numbers to be confident, but I'd guess they didn't change anything? In which case I'm a little stymied about where to spend stamina... I haven't run the math yet, but I think Melting Pot's better for skill/luck candies than Agartha is, and combined with the so-so luck drops, it's probably a good option, but it takes a lot of wall-clock time...
     
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  13. Eblis

    Eblis Member

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    So this is way OT now and should probably move over to one of the Melting Pot threads, but it looks like our stats guesses above for candy boxes were spot-on. I recorded 64 runs so far of Human, Beastfolk, and Lizardfolk 2-4, and the results are 16 box drops, 5 skill, 5 luck, and 6 level. That sure looks like a 25% drop rate and a 1/3-each chance to me.

    Arguably, Beastfolk and Lizardfolk 3 seem like they might be the "best" in some sense, since Yapkar and Burbaba have some small chance of dropping individual candies as well (I got 3 out of ~30-odd runs in those stages so far, with double Treasure Hunter), and very occasionally those D chests also drop Metal Tickets. For whatever reason, I've gotten neither candies nor tickets from Amina on Human 3. Maybe they only gave them to the 1x1 bosses, or I've just been really unlucky so far...

    So time for some math: suppose you one-shot every level with double TH. That means you're spending 5 stamina and maybe 2 minutes for 0.25*0.33*3=0.25 LB + 0.25 SB + 0.25*3*200k = roughly 150k experience (on a high-level non-recoded Z unit), plus epsilon more from the individual candies (and tickets).

    Agartha has a 25% each drop rate for level and skill candies from D chest, plus 10% (ish) each from 100L chest. A run spends 15 stamina and (generously) 1 minute for 0.25*0.25+0.1=0.16 SB + 0.16*3*200k = roughly 100k experience. Throw in a smidge more SB since you're probably running Agartha with a full team (unlike MP) and might not have them all to 100SB. So assuming you don't care about the Agartha MM drops, for the same real time investment and much less stamina, the Melting Pot payoff is sort of comparable - but includes LB as well as SB and levels.

    For comparison, from above, Forest burns 1 stamina and a little less than 2 minutes on 6*0.2*1.5=1.8ish LB with RR. Plus an average of maybe 0.3ish SB / run, since it's easy to have a full six-unit team that's all still LBing and SBing at the same time.

    Upshot: if that math all looks right, and CTs are sort of useless for now, Melting Pot (and especially Lizard and Beast 3) might, weirdly, be the best place to burn stamina right now - and yet they're not clearly better than just grinding the Forest, either. I'm really having trouble identifying stages that are worth spending stamina on, once you've gotten through all of the new content...
     
  14. Silver Mitsuki

    Silver Mitsuki The Italian Mod Staff Member

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    As this topic received way more replies than I though, I moved all the interested posts in a new thread (as it should have been since the beginning), thank you all for your collaboration.
     
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  15. haloo

    haloo Member

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    Is the coin pot removed or I missed it all the time? I clear all 15 the Human stages but never meet it a single time @@!
     
  16. Silver Mitsuki

    Silver Mitsuki The Italian Mod Staff Member

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    The coin pot was a "event-like" feature that awarded candies to the players who donated it a certain amount of coins (a total of 3k coins across all the times you met it a LV box, 6k coins a SB box and so on for a total of 6 rewards). Instead of putting hand at the "reset" mechanism (that used to happen at the end of each Melting Pot event) they probably decided to remove it completely and replace it with an enemy that awards the player a random candybox. Another event that 5.5.X didn't brought us back is the Jade Dragon, probably (maybe?) for the same reason (some extra work to do in order to make it work as any other stage).
     
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  17. D-rex

    D-rex Member

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    And they didn't get us back Golem, either. Unless I missed it someplace.
     
  18. Silver Mitsuki

    Silver Mitsuki The Italian Mod Staff Member

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    I blamed the lack of the Captive Golem to the fact that it was a collaboration with the Mysterious Priestess (they made the BGM), but among the other things (eventually, let's discuss about this on the thread Ver.5.5.0 The Final Update ) I also felt the lack of Kino World. At the end, I can't do more than assuming the reasons why Mistwalker does what it does.

    [/OT]
     
  19. fubiki

    fubiki Member

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    There aren't any skill candy in Tower of temptation stage?
     
  20. Silver Mitsuki

    Silver Mitsuki The Italian Mod Staff Member

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    Not anymore, now the Tower of Temptation (the 3rd and most difficult stage) can be used to farm helper items ("Reinforcement" characters drop from the boss, EXP Boost and friends might appear from the D Luck chest) and recode items (Mantle/Deepwater/Temporal Helices, White Hole, ... == no flawless helix)
     

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