Physical Mutoh team (post 4.7.0 PD nerf)

Discussion in 'Levels & Bosses' started by EricTheMostRed, Jun 27, 2017.

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  1. EricTheMostRed

    EricTheMostRed Member

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    After a large amount of trial and error, I once again beat Mutoh with an all-physical team (no twister phase). I had previously done it before the 4.7.0 nerf (caps physical damage multiplier at +200% or 4 stacks on the trinity). I used 4 grand petas, a chocobo, and a heal rod. I believe this could be done with 3 grand petas, a chocobo, and a minidra, but if you are lacking those this is probably not the method for you.

    My team (in party formation order):
    Snaip ^
    PD x1.5
    Tail Spin
    Attack + 10%, Self
    Terabow
    Holy Bow of Genji

    Bahl ^
    PD x1.5
    Terasword
    Attack + 10%, Self
    Gigasword
    Grand Ragnarok

    Gatz ^
    Levitation, All
    Megasword
    Gigasword
    Attack + 10%, Equip
    Grand Ragnarok

    Palpa ^
    CT + 2 Sec, Chain
    Mega Regen, Chain
    Giga Regen, Chain
    HP + 10%
    Heal Rod (I do not have a whitewyrm wand, unfortunately)

    Shinen ^
    Thousand Spears
    Defense +10%
    Petaspear
    Gigaspear, Cross (All)
    Chocobo

    Suoh ^
    Teraspear
    PD x 1.2
    Attack +10%, Self
    Gigasword
    Grand Rune

    This method requires 7 turns to kill Mutoh. Obviously there is quite a bit of RNG involved, especially with the 2nd set of staffs. I wish I had a video, but I use an iPhone and therefore can't take video. :(

    Turn 1: Pincer upper left staff with Gatz and Bahl/Snaip (it will not die, but it won't graviball you either)
    Turn 2: Double pincer Mutoh (horizontally), kill a staff
    Turn 3: Triple pincer Mutoh (stay away from border), kill the other staff
    Turn 4: Double pincer Mutoh, she'll summon 3 staffs after this turn
    Turn 5: Triple pincer Mutoh w/ power point, kill 1 staff, pray that the other 2 staffs do not kill anybody. Note that the staff will not die unless you hit it really hard. This typically means having Bahl or Snaip on one side of the pincer, even if it means that this character doesn't lead a pincer against Mutoh on this turn. If you lead a pincer against the staff with Palpa, it probably won't die (even with Bahl or Snaip on the other side!).
    Turn 6: Triple pincer Mutoh w/ power point (vertically), kill 1 staff, pray that remaining staff does not kill anybody. This is the biggest RNG - that you can vertically triple pincer. After this turn Mutoh was at about 670k for me. Suoh, Bahl, and Snaip MUST be the ones tripled this time to get enough stacks.
    Turn 7: Triple pincer Mutoh w/ power point and all 9 taps, kill last staff, hope it's enough to win!

    Keys to victory:
    On Turn 6 I was able to give Suoh, Bahl, and Snaip 3x stacks from the triple pincer.

    On Turn 7 I had Shinen, Bahl, and Snaip on the triple pincer (Bahl and Snaip leading pincers against Mutoh). Gatz and Suoh were on other side of Mutoh. Palpa initiated the pincer with the staff (Bahl was on other side of staff). With the stacks from the previous turn, this means I hit Mutoh with 3x Chocobo from Shinen, had max stacks on both Bahl and Snaip for all of their hits, and I had PD x2.0 on Suoh for the final hit (3x stacks from prior turn, 2x stacks from turn 7). As far as I can tell, there is no way to do more damage than I did on turn 7 with my setup. I don't know by how much I overkilled Mutoh, but it probably wasn't much.

    Other important tips:
    1. Move Palpa around so everyone stays healed. Since this method requires that you leave some staffs alive for several turns, the only way to avoid dying is to stay at max HP. All of the characters can take 1 hit from a staff, but only Shinen can tank 2 hits. With the HP+10% skill Palpa just barely survives a pincer between Mutoh and a staff.
    2. I had to play around with my pincers on turns 3-5 to do enough damage that I ended up with about 670k HP on Mutoh at the end of turn 6, but not so much damage that I went to twister phase. If you are going to twister phase at the end of turn 6, try doing some non-optimal pincers earlier on (for example, don't lead every pincer with Bahl and Snaip on Mutoh, use them on the staffs sometimes instead).

    Final notes:
    1. If you have a Minidra (I do not), that is better on Gatz than a Grand Peta. You will need to adjust pincers accordingly though to avoid twister phase at end of turn 6.
    2. If you have spare grand petas, you can put one on Shinen. Minidra is not better on Shinen, as he shouldn't be leading any of your final pincers. Shinen is really only on the team for his physical debuff taps.
    3. Schweiz or Peyrna would almost certainly be better than Palpa, but I don't have either of them.
    4. I've probably attempted this at least 50 times and I've succeeded once post-nerf. This is not a method for the faint of heart.

    Update: Just to prove it wasn't a fluke, I beat Mutoh ^ 3 times with this team today (June 27th).
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2017
  2. EricTheMostRed

    EricTheMostRed Member

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    Since I can't take video on my phone, I took a series of screenshots instead. I took a "before" picture for each turn, then a picture after I made my move. Turns 1-4 are pretty much identical every run, but RNG takes over starting at turn 5 (Mutoh summons her 3 staffs).

    Start:
    [​IMG]
    Turn 1 Move (Mutoh row attack):
    [​IMG]
    Start of Turn 2:
    [​IMG]
    Turn 2 Move (Mutoh column attack):
    [​IMG]
    Start of Turn 3:
    [​IMG]
    Turn 3 Move (Mutoh border attack):
    [​IMG]
    Start of Turn 4:
    [​IMG]
    Turn 4 Move (Mutoh summon 3 staffs):
    [​IMG]
    Start of Turn 5:
    [​IMG]
    Turn 5 Move (Mutoh moves, staffs breath attack or pincer):
    [​IMG]
    Start of Turn 6:
    [​IMG]
    Turn 6 Move (Mutoh row attack):
    [​IMG]

    Note: At the end of Turn 6, I had Mutoh right at 660k (twister threshold). You may notice I used a very suboptimal pincer on that turn, but it's because I was worried about doing too much damage.

    And that's where it stopped because the remaining staff traveled all the way down to the bottom and killed my Snaip :(. Proof that even when you play pretty much perfectly, the RNG of the staffs can ruin your run. If my Snaip had not died, I would've triple pincered Mutoh with the remaining staff and almost certainly killed her. Anyway, you get the idea, hopefully.

    Happy hunting!
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2017
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  3. DEaK67

    DEaK67 Member

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    guess that explains why i havent been able to get my iphone to record ingame properly/ sumhow ive gotten it to upload it to youtube twice once it was my vid, but a older run i was trying to record other time it was some randoms persons totally different fight.

    anyway nice job with this all i need is 2 grands and Gatz ^ to run her, (would a different tapper work?*note i dont even have any other tappers besides palp-_-) That puts my alot closer then the other team which i only have sayu.

    Game just dosent want to give me any magic tappers/debuffers so id happily forest her to 100L if i could get her once
     
  4. cjguitarman

    cjguitarman Active Member

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    Gatz^ is important because he provides significant chainable physical attacks (in addition to augment ATK).
     
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  5. cjguitarman

    cjguitarman Active Member

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    I made over 120 unsuccessful attempts over the last yesterday. Tweaked skills today and his team cleared it in about 20 attempts. :joyful:
    [​IMG]

    Fun sidenote: the staves can be demoralized!
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2017
  6. yeezus

    yeezus Well-Known Member

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    If you switch Suoh^ with Peyrna/Annu, it should be easier to beat her, since you'd only need back to back double pincers instead of a final triple pincer. It also leaves Gatz taps open for killing staves instead of during the final burst turn.
     
  7. cjguitarman

    cjguitarman Active Member

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    Definitely, I would love to pull Peyrna or Annu. :)
     
  8. Ichiskarr

    Ichiskarr New Member

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    Hi Eric, I got her down to 28K but the twisters got me after that. I would recommend stating which team member was the mover for each turn.
     
  9. cjguitarman

    cjguitarman Active Member

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    The key is understanding the order in which pincers activate. You want Bahl^ and S'naip^ to stack their buffs as many times as possible before leading the pincer. (The same is true for Suoh^ with his 1.2x physical, but he is lower priority.)

    If the mover is pincering, those pincers always go first. In addition to that, here's a handy chart from Kura:
    [​IMG]
     
  10. EricTheMostRed

    EricTheMostRed Member

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    It changes, but in the above example these were the characters I moved:

    Turn 1: Gatz
    Turn 2: Suoh (this one is a little difficult because you have no bonus CT)
    Turn 3: Palpa (CT+4 for this turn)
    Turn 4: Palpa (CT+4 for this turn)
    Turn 5: Palpa (CT+4 for this turn)
    Turn 6: Gatz (CT+4 for this turn)

    After Turn 4 it really depends on the setup. I usually move with Palpa because she'll typically have CT+4 (or more) and I can direct my heals better. However, sometimes it's better to move a different unit due to the available pincers and the locations of my characters.
     
  11. doodootron

    doodootron Member

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    Thank you! I only recently got Gatz, so I've been waiting forever to be able to get Mutoh. Your guide was very helpful. Using your same setup, I'd say it took me about 40 to 50 runs to get good at it and get the right RNG. My only change was that I had a Grand otomo on Shinen, and a White Lamp on Palpa (I found it more useful to have her healing Giga Area2 than on Tera Chain).

    On my second-to-last turn, I was only able to do a normal double pincer (I killed 2 staves in the turn before this). This got me to around 675k. My final turn was a triple pincer, with Palpa & Gatz on the last stave, and Snaip & Bahl both on the "triple activation" side (Suoh & Shinen on the other side of the boss).

    Now the question is, do I try to continue SB & LB Mutoh this way (ugh), or grind it out in the Cryptid Forest (ugh) ...
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2017
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  12. cjguitarman

    cjguitarman Active Member

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    Congrats on capturing her! Forest will be much more efficient use of your time because you can grind Mutoh + 5 others.
     
  13. EricTheMostRed

    EricTheMostRed Member

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    Congrats on unlocking Mutoh! I would strongly suggest using the forest until you can farm Mutoh more easily with photon mages. I've tried Mutoh a couple hundred times and I've only won 3 times since the PD nerf. After the first unlock my time would've been much better used in the forest...

    You have it a little easier due to your 5th grand peta, but obviously it is still very difficult.
     
  14. Allatar

    Allatar Active Member

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    Managed to get mutoh a bit more easily with Annu instead on Palpa and Edglow instead of Shinen (Annu does more damage than Palpa and Edglow about the same as shinen but kill staves more easily) Now mutoh is 9%SB 3L , but i'll wait till i get more Photon/Mtaps to finish Mutoh
     
  15. DanielMilian

    DanielMilian Member

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    I made with a hybrid team, not the optimal tho...
    Snaip^ - Holy Bow
    Gatz^- Grand Ragnarok
    Bahl^ - Grand Ragnarok
    Sayu - Schweiz Bow
    Annu - Holy Dragon
    Shinen^ - Grand Rune

    Turn 1 kill both staves, pincer the upper staff with Snaip and Bahl and try lower one with Gatz and Annu. Having Sayu on the lower corner so she’s in both pincers. Double pincer Mutoh until she summons staves again. Then kill two staves (having sayu on pincer is almost definitely kill) and on the following turn try to tipple pincer Mutoh making sure Sayu, Snaip and Bahl trigger 3 times. By then she should be close to the threshold so tap everything and it should be dead.

    This method is REALLY hard because of the lack of CT. Having Schweiz or Peyrna would make the battle way easier. The battle itself was not that hard and dealing damage was not the problem but if you have CT I would advice this method because I noticed is a little bit less dependant on RNG.
    If you have double magic taps, is better to put holy dragon to Sayu.
    Also it seems that Minindra is better on Gatz but my Gatz only had about 50% SB, so that’s why I went for the guaranteed Petas.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
  16. dudeddddddddddddddddddd

    dudeddddddddddddddddddd New Member

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    I've made a breakthrough getting Mutoh^ yesterday with a sword team.

    It's not a guaranteed win, but it's certainly doable with enough runs. And it allows another option to beat Mutoh^ when there are few to begin with.

    I will post it in Eric's thread since I don't think it's worth its own thread (plus I built my sword team by comparing it to the final DPS output Eric's team coming up very close. As well as following the initial steps).

    Pre-4.7.0 nerf sword teams worked easier, but they still work now.

    However you'll need a few different things:

    Bahl^ - Grand. 1.5x. All attack skills (without +10% atk).

    Suoh^ - Grand. 1.5x All attack skills (without +10% atk)

    Palpa^ - Healing (I used chain). Defense/Time/HP

    Korin^ - Korin O. Sword defense. Sword atk. You can use adjacent ATK, but I used giga cross.

    Gatz^ - Minidra. Levi/+10%atk/giga/mega

    Scarlet - Scarlet OIII. All attack skills.

    Hardest part of the team to get is probably Scarlet, Grands, and Minidra.

    I tried it with CE and without the minidra a while back and it didn't work even with optimal setup.

    With Gatz Minidra. You'll still need a back to back triple pincer and 1 more pincer (maybe not the in my run I put Bahl^ last when she can go before Suoh as she capped both her ATK and PHY DMG multipliers) But the turn before should be 3 proc gatz/bahl/suoh and 2 proc Korin.

    A few notes and hints:

    • I usually put Bahl/Scarlet together & Suoh/Gatz together for pincers since Gatz double pincer multiplier is very high.
    • Most of the team can survive psychical hits due to Korin^ def boosts. But make sure to take care of Palpa. Staffs usually attack the bunched up units. So putting her into a corner or away from others might help if you find her dying a lot.
    • Staffs can be killed with a stacked Bahl^ and Scarlet. I usually triple pincer with Bahl/Gatz/Suoh. Korin/Palpa on Mutoh.
    • However, sword team has no immunity against graviton attacks. Consider yourself dead if staffs activate the 3 unit graviton attack. I've noticed that if left with high HP their activation rate is very low. But blow the 1/2 it rises. At 1/4 it's almost guaranteed.
    • However, sword team has no immunity against graviton attacks. Consider yourself dead if staffs activate the 3 unit graviton attack. I've noticed that if left with high HP their activation rate is very low. But blow the 1/2 it rises. At 1/4 it's almost guaranteed.
    • Minidra Gatz next to Suoh with Korin boost does quite a bit of chip with his berserker. So players might want to consider taking out the lower HP staffs first in case they activate their graviton attack.
    • I tried running the 7 turn method for about 2 days with no success. Changed strategy to let Mutoh re-summon and got it within the afternoon. One of the main issues is without the 10% ATK+ skills the stacks and DPS doesn't come fast enough to really drop mutoh to 660k without either killing all the staffs or lowering their HP to the point where they activate graviton kill. There should be around 760-780K hp by the time the staffs die. Which is enough to allow pincer on mutoh with palpa/korin during the off turns for CT stacks before the staffs get re-summoned as well as allow a triple pincer stack (I did mine with Bahl^ pincering the staff away from Mutoh)

    I don't think sword team is a good method (I'm not going to farm Mutoh with this team), but I think it is an additional option for those who want to try and challenge Mutoh without other options. If you have 3 grands Eric's method seems much easier.

    I theorized that it might be still possible with minidra even with just Bahl/Gatz/Souh/Palpa if you replace Korin/Scarlet with characters like Shinen/Snaip/Sayu (which I have, but I didn't try with yet).
     
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  17. cjguitarman

    cjguitarman Active Member

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    Very nice work, dude! You put a lot of effort into this, glad you made it pay off!
     
  18. TrueShadow

    TrueShadow Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for this method. I followed your team, except Sayu has Mog (don't have Schweiz Bow), Schweiz instead of Annu, and Edg'low + HDZ instead of Shin'en.

    I finally managed to get her, even though I needed some luck. I only managed to get her down to 2k HP before Sayu's bomb activating and killing Mutoh.
     
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  19. DanielMilian

    DanielMilian Member

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    Nice!
    I did some testing and found out that Holy Dragon is a better companion for Shinen. It seems that Schweiz is doing too little damage and Annu's Matk buff help a lot in the longrun, but having CT is way too nice.
     

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