TB2: P2W?

Discussion in 'Rants & Accomplishments' started by Caliban, Nov 2, 2017.

  1. Caliban

    Caliban Active Member

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    Are there any other TB1 veterans who feel like a major part of what made that game great is missing from TB2?

    To me, TB1 was a game that yes, you had to drop money into if you wanted to get the good stuff first, but everything that was available to IAP players was ALWAYS available to F2P players too if you were willing to grind enough and not be the first one on the block with the shiny new toys.

    There are really two things bugging me about TB2 that make me feel this way:

    1. The impossibility of removing guardians or weapons from the pacts.
      • In TB1, you could eventually be guaranteed to draw a Z rank character if you maxed out all the lower classes. There is nothing like that in TB2.
    2. You need to draw the same weapon multiple times to "unleash" its full potential.
      • It's like a triple whammy of unattainable completion; weapons are more important than guardians, you can't remove weapons from the pacts, and you need to draw the same Z weapon FOUR TIMES to max it out.

    As an example- I dumped nearly all my compensation energy into the equipment pacts. Best sword I got was an SS Dainsleif which is 208 ATK. But my fully unleashed A-rank Sun Blade is 218 ATK. To add insult to injury- I also drew an SS Tyrfing sword which is 206 ATK; so I got two SS swords which are virtually identical, but I can't even merge them to get one to a higher level. What a waste. I'd have been better off with a bunch more Sun Blades. And the single solitary Z weapon I got is a Carnwennan dagger, but if it takes me 300 energy to draw one Z weapon, it would take me 900 energy to draw another three Z weapons, and odds are they won't be dupes, so I'd have to spend thousands of energies (thousands of dollars) just to get these things to their max levels? Forget it. In TB1, a good draw was a good draw, and I miss that.

    At the end of the day, I feel like TB2 is better in a lot of ways- I absolutely love the complexity of the equipment system, so much so that I could forgive the mushy gameplay and constant crashing; but when I think about what it would take to actually get these weapons to their max levels, I start to think, why even bother. Even in TB1 where you couldn't remove weapons from pacts- you could at least farm CTs in Shin'en HM or BLO1. There was always a way for grinders to get the good stuff. Feels like that's gone here. Unless you dump your energy into guardians and get lucky enough to get Zs with really good union rewards... but even then, you'd need to get the same Z guardian four times and then get him to 200% SB (ugh) four times (quadruple ugh) if you wanted, say, a fully unleashed Ragnarok from Mu.

    I know MW is trying to make money off this game, and I fully respect that, but I was really hoping they'd keep to the philosophy of encouraging F2P players to stick around to build the user base. Right now I don't know why I'm playing; I'm a completionist and I do not see a path to completion that doesn't require pouring thousands of dollars into this app.

    Prove me wrong, MW!
     
  2. mudamuda

    mudamuda Active Member

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    The need to unleash the higher rank weapons just to get them to be better than what you can do with unleashed A rank weapons is baffling, if not insulting. Right now at the current content difficulty we can make do with fully unleashed A/B weapons, which is great and player friendly, but once things get harder than that everyone without multiple copies of the same higher ranked weapons will be feeling this disparity.

    In that sense it doesn't really make sense that the S/SS/Z weapons are that much harder to pull. And since higher ranked guardians best utilize giga and above weapons, it's like you're punished for not having gear to match your guardian. Why does getting lucky pulls equate to having a harder time to get them to potential? Having to unlock S and above weapons 3x means we have to pull them 4x, but since these are higher grade weapons that are rarer pulls, shouldn't the opposite be true? We should be able to have the benefit of higher levels/stats with less unleashings the higher the grade of the weapon.

    If the higher ranked weapons had higher pull rates and we needed to unleash them fewer times then I would be okay with not being able to take guardians out of the pool, because guardians have special union weapons that aren't in the weapons pact and getting multiples of guardians means you may be able to unleash those unique weapons. But I don't want to have to grind Roland/Xena 4 times!
     
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  3. Mako

    Mako Member

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    In general, mobile games will try to take your money in any possible way.
    If you:
    • have some kind of addiction.
    • enjoy gambling.
    • are unable to administrate your money in a sensible way.
    • have some kind of OCD.
    You REALLY should think twice if you want to install a game that features a gatcha.

    They KNOW how to manipulate players. They collect, tally and share information on players' behavior in order to obtain revenue.

    It can be argued that this isn't intrinsically bad, it's a business and they want to make a profit after all.

    They don't provide a service out of kindness, they want your money.
    They aren't your friends, they want your money.
    They owe you nothing, they want to own your money.

    In short, treat them like you treat your bank: use their services but be wary of them.
     
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  4. Caliban

    Caliban Active Member

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    @Mako, I agree with everything you said- Mistwalker is a business and its purpose is to maximize profits. I have nothing against that. I sure as heck wouldn't show up to work every day if they weren't paying me.

    My point was that I think MW could make more money in total if they made the gacha a little less expensive. For me at least, over the course of a year or two I might dump a couple hundred bucks into a game, but I definitely wouldn't dump a couple thousand- and if I think that "winning" the game requires paying thousands of dollars, I'm not going to spend a cent. If TB2 is a "whales only" game then I think not a lot of people will stick around long-term. Wouldn't you rather have 100 customers paying $100 each than 2 customers paying $1000 each? Maybe MW crunched their own numbers and figured that the TB2 gacha would be more profitable, obviously I'm just making up numbers to prove a point, but there's no denying that TB2 is a more expensive game if you want the premium content since the gacha is unlimited.

    There's also a little bit of Sakaguchi fanboy in me that is just disappointed on an emotional level to see the Terra Battle franchise go this way. Terra Battle 1 was different, you know?
     
  5. Mako

    Mako Member

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    I'm more cynical and think that TB1 was the Guchi's lab to test the waters on mobile games.

    On TB1:
    • How far will people do a tedious task for a reward? (SB system)
    • What will happen if we add another tedious task mid-game? (Luck system)
    • What if we add infinite gatcha? (Companion system)
    • What if we add extra-premium currency? (Pact of Hope)

    On TB2:
    • Let's begin from the very start with 3 tedious tasks (SB, Union, Luck). Let's throw some equipment there as a reward since we got rid of finite gatcha.
    • Apparently people don't like change so let's start with 3 repetitive stats right away (see above)
    • Let's make guardian and equipment gatcha non-clearable from the start. Let's also put an unleash system there to use those duplicates (or try to force people to pull for some specific piece of equipment)
    • Tickets? Maybe in the future they'll be traded using a premium currency. The code is there anyway.
     
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  6. Khan

    Khan Member

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    This game is also a bit different with the weapons carrying the attack range. Even though the Sun Blade fully unleashed has a high attack, it add nothing to attack range. I don't let myself get caught up on the total attack number. A weapon with 250 attack but only his pincered units is only good on boss fights. For every other instance, a 200 attack weapon that hits an entire row, column, etc is much better.

    As for completionism, the first Terra Battle was unique in the way you could empty the gacha pool if you grinded enough. Most gacha games do not have an option like that. Duplicate pulls are very common is almost every other game. I know they spoiled us with the first game but that Game was the exception, not the rule.
     
  7. Caliban

    Caliban Active Member

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    That's essentially my point- TB1 was special. TB2 is not.

    I had really high hopes for TB2 but in many ways it seems like every other gacha out there. Probably I'll keep playing as a casual, because after ~600 consecutive days playing TB1 I don't know that I can go cold turkey, but it's just not the same.
     
  8. fgbrooks

    fgbrooks New Member

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    Amen Brother Caliban, amen.
     
  9. Acheron-X

    Acheron-X New Member

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    Sadly, this is the case. It's been proven time and time again that it is much more profitable to have some very low % (not too long, obviously) be whales, rather than have some high number be low spenders. It's why F/GO has been on the top grossing list for so long with a 1% SSR rate.
     
  10. icehro

    icehro Member

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    I totally agree with you. Although I never spend in a gacha game (Except once in TB1 bcause I wanted to support goochi and get Senala... -Ye I got her :3-)
    But I'm a dangerous gambler (PSA : Only on FGO game) when they throw my favorite characters I took the bait and spend all my FREE ressources, and get nothing. Well I'm sure dissapointed but I never took my wallet and spend, because I know that using money for virtual things (that can maybe shut down) is not worth. (>.< Senala was too cute/strong sry)

    TB2 is sorta of P2W I mean you already explained it in your first post :
    That's how it is => easy to max low tier, paid to max high tier. Unless you are blessed with you luck that's not possible.

    You sense there was going to be a trick behind "Here 300+ energy" but no rate-up gacha and those I waited for rate-up... Miracle some weeks after a big rate-up gacha came.

    I played a high number of gacha game and I know how it is : like Mako said they use our gambler sense : "1%.. maybe I can catch him on my next roll etc.."
    I never fall for it but my friend spend 160SQ on FGO (Note : ~55rolls) and NEVER get the character he aimed for.

    Be carfull with your temptation !
     

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